Feb. 17, 2026
Companion Episode - The 100 Year Journey from Surgeons with Reputations to Surgical Robots
Send a text This episode is the companion episode to "The 100 year Journey from Surgeons with Reputations to Surgical Robots". It frames the value that you can takeaway for your engineering career. In this episode we discuss things such as: 1. Industry differentiation and the pressures that force it 2. Where values reveal themselves 3. Industry recognition vs. customer recognition 4. Who is rewarded under different paradigm 5. The right champions matter for technological adoption 6. The...
This episode is the companion episode to "The 100 year Journey from Surgeons with Reputations to Surgical Robots". It frames the value that you can takeaway for your engineering career.
In this episode we discuss things such as:
1. Industry differentiation and the pressures that force it
2. Where values reveal themselves
3. Industry recognition vs. customer recognition
4. Who is rewarded under different paradigm
5. The right champions matter for technological adoption
6. The need for champions
The Engineering Passion Express is about growing knowledge and the passion for engineering.
If you are a conference organizer and are looking for an engineering or scientific speaker to inspire or educate in a keynote presentation, please reach out to me on LinkedIn. You can find my profile below.
Thanks for listening,
Brandon Donnelly
Please connect with me on linkedin @ linkedin.com/in/brandondonnelly
WEBVTT
00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:16.239
Welcome to the Engineering Passion Express podcast.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:23.760
I am your host, Brandon Donnelly, and this is the companion episode to our episode on surgical robots.
00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:37.119
I'd like to take some time and tell you a bit about why I told this story, especially why I told it over a hundred year span, and go through it together and find out what the takeaways are.
00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:45.679
So, first of all, I told this story over about a hundred-year time span because it illustrates how industries shift over a long time horizon.
00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:51.520
And in those shifts, there's a lot of opportunities that arise across those times.
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.560
But because it happens so slow, often most people miss the opportunity.
00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:08.719
And I think this is where a lot of engineers can increase the value in their career by recognizing when an industry has shifted enough to make a big change.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:15.120
So medicine is a highly competitive industry, obviously.
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.079
Lots of schooling required, lots of dedication.
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:27.840
In this story, I shared how initially 100 years ago, surgeons built their careers off of reputation.
00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.840
In fact, outcomes weren't measured.
00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:31.519
There was no real database.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:39.519
So because of that, it wasn't really about your skill, it was about maybe how media savvy you are.
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:46.319
Then outcome measurements came along, and then it was all about mortality statistics.
00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:57.599
If you were better than the other guy, obviously more people are gonna feel comfortable with you, and you're going to get your pick of work, maybe higher pay for that work.
00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:06.239
And the people that will be stuck with the other guys are the people that can't pay as much but need surgery immediately, or they're gonna die.
00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:11.280
And so then they're stuck with surgeons with worse mortality outcomes.
00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:22.000
But over time, those outcomes are chased, and you reach this sort of inflection point where you can't really make it much better.
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:31.280
There's some amount of people that have such bad conditions that no matter what you do surgical-wise, they're probably going to pass away during the surgery.
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:37.759
So you kind of reach a plateau where your level of skill or the quality of your hands can't go any further.
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:44.159
And that's when differentiation in an industry starts to begin because it's it's hard to stand out.
00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:52.159
You have to pick some other metric that other people either aren't measuring or are picking a different one.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.360
And that's when values begin to shift.
00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:07.599
I mean, you can see this in less competitive industries, or I shouldn't say less competitive, I should say you can see this in less serious industries, like fast food versus a restaurant.
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.319
One cares about how fast we get you your food, the other might care about the quality.
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.919
Even within a restaurant, there might be another one that cares about the ambiance.
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.400
Those are differing values.
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:20.800
You could add price to that.
00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:27.280
And that's what happens when an industry gets very competitive.
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.759
You now have to have differentiation.
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:35.360
And those different differentiations lead to different technological adaptations.
00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:40.319
Everything McDonald's does is to speed up how fast we can get your order out the window.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:48.879
Where everything a high-end restaurant might do is how can we impart the most flavor and the most experience onto the customer?
00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.759
And those two things lead to very different technological adaptations.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:04:04.159
But something that's always clear in every industry is that the customer matters and what they value matters.
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:16.399
In particular, there's oftentimes like the patients in this story, where they just cared about surviving because that was the goal to keep their life.
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.040
That's why they were going for critical surgeries.
00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:32.959
But then somebody else told them, not only can you keep your life, but I can get you back to your normal exercise, back to your normal work, all of that, in a very quick time frame, quicker than the other surgeons.
00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.279
And I've been measuring this, so that's how I know.
00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:43.120
When nobody else has the data like that, then you become the expertise.
00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:50.560
And sometimes what people miss, and this is what Dr.
00:04:51.360 --> 00:05:06.720
Reginald Hawthorne missed in the episode was that conflating industry recognition with metrics that a customer cares about can be two different things.
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:30.480
I think if you wanted a cross-industry comparison here, oftentimes movie or music award shows, somebody gets an award, which is like industry recognition, but yet that song wasn't the most popular or the movie wasn't the most widely shared by the population.
00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:41.199
And so those people are being proud of their industry recognition, but at the same time, they're not being rewarded by the customer.
00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.240
And essentially, markets always come back to customers.
00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:53.680
So I think something special to always look for in your career is an opportunity for a values shift.
00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:54.480
Dr.
00:05:54.639 --> 00:06:16.959
John Wickham represented somebody who both saw an opportunity to shift values and was successful in campaigning them, thinking about the change in keeping someone alive to maximizing their recovery and making sure that they have as much capability after the surgery as they did before.
00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.759
That's a shift in where you're looking and the result that you're gonna get.
00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:35.439
In this value shift range, I think we overlook a lot of times that those are who are rewarded from the old values will resist the new values.
00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:47.920
And you can't really outlogic it, you can't really help them see it because they've been so rewarded that they almost don't want to see it.
00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.560
And the speech that the character Dr.
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:58.399
Reginald Hawthorne made here was to share a bit of an old man's wisdom on that fact.
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:20.720
Within this story, Hawthorne and other surgeons resisted Wickham and Mull's contributions to the medical field because recognizing them might possibly reorder the hierarchy, which is always a threat, even as most people don't recognize it themselves.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:28.079
But sometimes you just need to speak a different language or find a different champion of your idea.
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:42.639
In this case, Fred Mole eventually spoke to hospital administrators and quit trying to convince surgeons who already felt like they were at the top of their game and didn't want to be replaced with robots.
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:59.519
Instead, he made a business case to the hospital administrators about why their patients would like it, how they would get a boost to the business, more patients, more throughput, better quality, less lawsuits, all kinds of things that are very, very beneficial.
00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:16.959
And now today, these robots are everywhere because once they realize the benefits, once the customer was happy with the results, it's hard to go back, no matter how resistant the industry was at the beginning.
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:21.839
And oftentimes these value shifts require entirely new methods and tools.
00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:27.759
So in our story, John Wickham didn't yet have surgical robots.
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:32.559
His values were for minimally invasive surgery.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:39.919
So what he first did was refine techniques that under the old methods and the old tools.
00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:49.039
He didn't revolutionize the technology, he revolutionized the techniques that were used that fit his values.
00:08:49.360 --> 00:09:00.960
And oftentimes these values shift that do require a champion because they don't change overnight and they don't change without somebody fighting for them.
00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:21.840
And when you fight for a long time for something better, you're gonna both feel worn out, but at the end of a years-long or decades-long campaign, you're typically rewarded, which is what Wickham saw, and it's what Mole saw.
00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:29.360
But I guarantee for both of these gentlemen, there was a huge amount of self-doubt.
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:32.320
Am I really the authority here?
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:40.320
As they got pushback, they probably wondered, is there someone else that can take this on?
00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:42.559
This seems like a heavy burden.
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:48.720
And in the early days, it's all burden and no payoff.
00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.840
And the longer you go, the higher the stakes become.
00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:53.519
Will this ever pay off?
00:09:54.080 --> 00:10:02.240
Or will I have just accepted sort of a beating from the world without anything to show for it?
00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:13.440
So where you can look for opportunities is look for shifting values, look for customer values, and look for values that can be strengthened.
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:24.240
And then ask yourself what are the tools, what are the methods, what are the techniques that I could use that we're not using today to better serve all of those values?
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.399
I think it's important to share a little bit of the inspiration for this episode.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:34.080
I made this because a recent experience brought me into contact with these robots and their usefulness.
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:41.600
Engineers often can't see the shifts in values that follow an industry until the end of their careers.
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:51.440
You have to sometimes be in it for 20, 30, 40 years to realize, wow, we were moving the whole time.
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:57.759
When you join an industry, it seems like it's always been that way and is always going to be that way.
00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.639
And so it feels much more static.
00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.960
But further towards the end of your career, it feels like things have been dynamic.
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:18.000
And I think if engineers can see that maybe five, ten years sooner, then we can have an explosion of innovation, of creative ideas.
00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:28.399
But I think there's a lot of room for industries to improve, but yet there aren't enough champions out there.
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.279
So the first step to creating more champions is to create more people that see.
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.279
And I hope that that's what the episode accomplished.
00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.600
Anyway, I enjoy the fact that you're listening to this short companion episode.
00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:57.600
I'm gonna try to make these from now on for each story episode, because the story episodes take a month or so to decide on the story, do some research, script it out, and it's a lot of effort.
00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.720
And I know that it feels like a long time between episodes.
00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:19.919
So, what I'm planning on doing, do one of those a month, do one of these where we kind of go through the story, and then I would like to do one interview style format for something that's useful to engineers with actionable items once a month.
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:35.039
It would boost us up to three episodes a month, give you more consistent items to listen to and help build value in your career and help you see the world and understand where you can maximize your value.
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.240
Thank you for listening to The Engineering Passion Express.
00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:43.600
As I mentioned before, my name is Brandon Donnelly, and I'm enjoying the work that I'm doing with this.
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:45.120
I hope you are too.
00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:52.399
I would really appreciate it if there's anyone that you can send the podcast to to say check it out.
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:58.799
As we got going here, there are some episodes that I feel are much higher quality than others.
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:06.240
So if you can send them some of the ones that you really liked as their hook in, that would be greatly appreciated.
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:21.679
In the future, I will also look to start to organize these episodes into common themes that can help illustrate different kinds of topics that you may want to learn as your career progresses.
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:24.080
Thank you again for being a listener.
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:29.759
And if you haven't, subscribe, and we'll see you on the next episode of the Engineering Passion Express.
00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:16.239
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:23.760
00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:37.119
00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:45.679
00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:51.520
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.560
00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:08.719
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:15.120
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.079
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:27.840
00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.840
00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:31.519
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:39.519
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:46.319
00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:57.599
00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:06.239
00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:11.280
00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:22.000
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:31.280
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:37.759
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:44.159
00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:52.159
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.360
00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:07.599
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.319
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.919
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.400
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:20.800
00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:27.280
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.759
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:35.360
00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:40.319
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:48.879
00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.759
00:03:54.879 --> 00:04:04.159
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:16.399
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.040
00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:32.959
00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.279
00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:43.120
00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:50.560
00:04:51.360 --> 00:05:06.720
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:30.480
00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:41.199
00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.240
00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:53.680
00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:54.480
00:05:54.639 --> 00:06:16.959
00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.759
00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:35.439
00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:47.920
00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.560
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:58.399
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:20.720
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:28.079
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:42.639
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:59.519
00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:16.959
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:21.839
00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:27.759
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:32.559
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:39.919
00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:49.039
00:08:49.360 --> 00:09:00.960
00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:21.840
00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:29.360
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:32.320
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:40.320
00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:42.559
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:48.720
00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.840
00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:53.519
00:09:54.080 --> 00:10:02.240
00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:13.440
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:24.240
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.399
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:34.080
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:41.600
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:51.440
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:57.759
00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.639
00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.960
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:18.000
00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:28.399
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.279
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.279
00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.600
00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:57.600
00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.720
00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:19.919
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:35.039
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.240
00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:43.600
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:45.120
00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:52.399
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:58.799
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:06.240
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:21.679
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:24.080
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:29.759
